Property Rights, Coal And Other Blurt Conversations

in blurt •  last month  (edited)

There has recently been a lot of tension and discussion regarding the COAL program.

Misunderstanding as many throw out often misunderstood concepts regarding the feel good phrase of decentralized, freedom of speech etc.

There are several nuances involved that is the subject of this examination.

Before I jump in, I wish to say a little more once again on property rights.

I've found in my time on social blockchains that there are quite a lot of folks who think they should have the right to dictate to others how they are to use their private property. This is a clear demand that others property rights should be diminished and given over to outside sources control.

We see that on other chains in the form of the down vote, that not only censures ones speech but further nullifies stake claims from ones property rights.

At Blurt, due to there being no such censoring or stake nullifying mechanism you see a lot more vocal angles taken attempting to stir up the mob to demand an erosion to others property rights.

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source

In the latest case that spurred the discussion once again bringing COAL to the center of attention, we saw a proposal to negate ones ability to self vote. A similar theme to the previous mobbing up against those who would delegate to a VTS with THEIR PERSONAL STAKE.

One thing I find ironic about these calls to impose upon others private property is how often those pushing for this intrusion also are among the first to demand free speech and free markets and decentralization. The contradictions are quite glaring really.

Contradictions that always bring the community such unnecessary turmoil that could be avoided if we stopped and simply respected the idea that others property is theirs, not mine, not yours.

In this latest case the target that became the poster child for allowing this justification for property rights erosion was picked because there is a growing segment of folks here who just don't like her. Which is no justification at all and is in my eyes disingenuous in seeking to elicit a sympathy to justify the attack on property rights.

If one respects property rights, the likability of the property owner has no place in determining whether one respects property rights. Regardless of how popular or unpopular a person is simply has no bearing on property rights, and even if another is someone you, for whatever reason find to be revolting any who respect property rights will be the first to rush forth in defense of the person when such rights are attacked.

It seems obvious to me that the constant erosion of freedom and respect within society in my lifetime is due to schisms that are cultivated among us. The constant justifications that the erosion is to be celebrated because look, we got em this time didn't we?

If we are ever to stop this constant erosion of our rights and dignity, defending rights of another even when you dislike them is simply a must. It's the only way we will ever have a way to nullify those who would see us own nothing, speak nothing but the approved points.

Before moving on to an examination of COAL, I wish to point out the irony of the seeming controversy of the recent suggested use of COAL in relation to all of this.

When I came to Blurt on Jan 5th 2021, COAL had been disabled. It was reinstated during another period of a demand for intrusion on property rights. That time it was the so called VTS wars, where several whales and a growing mob they had formed were demanding an end to VTS. The original argument put forth was it was being used by scammers who were plagiarizing.

So in an effort to find a middle ground that respected private property yet would seek remedy for the demand for property right erosion that was being demanded, megadrive reinstalled the COAL list. Sadly the war on VTS continued to the sad conclusion it did, as at that time the plagiarism angle was being used as a front and was not the main reason that VTS was being opposed.

It didn't escape me after seeing how that situation devolved into one of name calling and more that the saying give an inch they seek a mile happens so often that many regret trying to seek a compromise.

What Is Bullying

The recent discussion on COAL came about through the targeting of a community member. There were several comments made over several posts, such as

I'll be keeping my critical thinking, logic, and 'cutting humor' weapons, very sharp indeed - on all of * posts. (*I deleted the name as she shouldn't be the focus directly on this post).

There have been numerous other things said, spread out enough that it would be fair to say it could be perceived by some as an act of aggression, or stalking bullying. I clarify at this point that I like the person I say this about, and not so much the person I perceive to be targeted. Yet, as I mention above one must step forward regardless of such personal views.

Now it was argued that it wasn't bullying, wasn't stalking or hounding.

I saw some comments saying

  • She can use the mute button

  • It wasn't bullying

  • It isn't stalking

  • She's a witch (so its ok?)

Regardless of where you fall on whether it is or isn't bullying, there is a question that is separate as to whether it is or isn't.

Can it be perceived as such?

Is it reasonable for the average person who is an onlooker to think that it is?

Would a government judicial system be able to perceive it as bullying?

If the judicial system could, can a website who ignores complaint of alleged abuse be held liable for not taking steps to mitigate or stop said actions?

https://www.avast.com/c-cyberbullying

The scope of this post isn't to determine whether or not bullying occurred in the situation that prompted this situation. You can each make up your own minds. But I would like you to ask yourselves whether a judicial system could view it as such, what is the likelihood. I ask this of each of you familiar with what happened to do this simply as to elicit an empathy for a viewpoint that isn't necessary for you to possess for my next statement to be true.

The Front Ends Are Private Property And Can Be Held Liable For Ignoring Conduct On Their Property Once Brought To Their Attention

There has been many comments I've seen since the initial mention by megadrive on placing this member in question on the COAL list.

I note your location to show Ophidia Hunter, basically likening her to a snake and saying that you are hunting her. This to me is clear harassment and bullying and I will be recommending your accounts to the wardens to be added to the coal list.

source

I notice that even here, despite the front end being private property that he was willing to allow independent wardens to decide if this had merit. This demonstrated to me he understood that his view could be looked upon as not being impartial.

Something he didn't need to do, as he is co owner of this front end. Even as one who would be the one punished by law if his property was held liable for ignoring what a court could deem as bullying/harassment, he still seeks not to overstep his power here. Yet I've seen some pretty harsh things said about the chain and him personally over this comment he made regarding HIS PROPERTY.

It needs understood that the COAL list is not a chain function, it is a front end (private property) function. And each individual owner of a front end, at the end of the day, are
the ones who will face any legal repercussions for what they allow to take place on THEIR PROPERTY!

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Not You, Not Me. The owner of the front end. Because it is THEIR property.

Now I've seen some who have been upset at this comment of his to protect his property. Bandying their misconceptions on decentralization, on rights of speech and such. Demonstrating their misconceptions about those ideas by demanding they should have a say in how another (the front end owner) uses their property.

Each front end has the ability to choose whether they wish to use a COAL list or not. I'm not sure if any of the front ends don't use it personally. But, even if they do all use it there is nothing preventing any of you who feel outraged that an owner would protect themselves from liability from opening your own free speech front end and taking on the legal liabilities onto your own shoulders.

It would certainly lend a certain credibility to the outrage I'm seeing for those upset to shoulder that burden in the name of muh free speech.

The chain, COAL or not, allows free speech. It allows respect of property rights. But the individual front ends are not the chain, they are privately owned property. Imagine inviting someone onto your property and they feel they have the right to do whatever they want there. I'm pretty sure you would quickly tell the person to go get their own property to do many things you might not like. I know I had that conversation with my son when he turned 18 and knew everything much better than his father. His vast knowledge and the preferences they evoked made it clear my house wasn't a suitable place for his genius to reside within.

In closing, it seems to myself that many who use ideas such as free markets, free speech, decentralization and such are often the quickest to demand anothers property become centralized to meet their expectations. That others use of their property only be used in certain ways etc. That the market is only to be free until it doesn't conform to my expectations, then it is to no longer be free.

In a free market which is what we have with the Blurt chain, feel free to put your hat in the ring with your resources and liability risks. If the market decides that it wants more of the dynamics that could cause legal repercussions you will win market share as the front end most visited.

And that is a true free market that checks off all of the cliche talking points.

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  ·  last month (edited)

These bullies who want to control how people upvote or invest their Blurt really should just create their own Front end and go there. The same people who were downvoted to zero for spam and self voting by Thugs on Hive have come to Blurt to complain about spam and self upvoting. Funny. The biggest Victims of Thuggery become the biggest Thugs.

I've noticed some of them are open to reasonable dialogue once one makes the counter in defense of property rights. Others however double down and create clever diagrams to illustrate the need to infringe upon anothers property.

I assume because they have neither the financial nor technical knowledge to create their own private property (front end) where they could then have their own front end to accommodate the speech (and risks).

I can understand that, as I have neither myself. But I would never think that I could dictate to another how they then had to use their property to make up for my own shortcomings.

I even mentioned in another comment on this post one could even make a racist front end. The chain doesn't make any distinctions on what is allowed. I also mentioned that no other front end would be forced to display such toxic posting.

front end = private property

chain = freedom of speech

The glossing over by those protesting hardest on a front end being private property (as well as ones personal stake in the case of self voting and VTS) isn't lost in the many words and diagrams being used.

Just make your own is the solution. Perhaps not easy to do, but a simple solution nonetheless. One that honors private property and the legal ramifications inherent in that ownership.

Agreed.

This is a very well done article. Thank you so much for making this. I cannot think of a single point you missed out on the topic. This is phenomenal work!

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I think you make some excellent points here. I am usually one to stay out of the real political side of these things even though I can see the importance of it. I also have noted the hypocrisy of all the big noise makers on all of these issues. Part of the reason I don't really take the time to put my voice inside is that I trust the foundation will not make any drastic changes, even the coal list is not new. I think the community and economics are sound and why mess with something on the way up.

There will always be bickering between humans. I can see some of them have learned how to use it for ratings even on the blockchain. Basically we can not have free speech, property rights, and safety for front end owners all as everyone one would want. We all have to compromise and give a little bit on our priorities. But the conversation can be healthy and sometimes it takes a threat and a warning to people stepping outside of the comfort and then the expected retort to bring everything out. This debacle has been more healthy for the last one and even funny with HIVE whales coming in with their justifications for their behavior and blockchain also. I think that the new wave of users on blurt which came as one whale left and sold to them has infact turned out to be better for the chain as I suspected it would.

I am usually one to stay out of the real political side of these things even though I can see the importance of it.

Understandable as it grows tiring, especially when one is repeating oneself.

I do so because I watch in these cases as mobs begin forming and the wrong information and negative emotions begin growing. I noted at an early age that dis-eased mindsets are communicable from one to others and if allowed to take root and flourish can quickly destroy a community.

I said in my last comment to another that Blurt offers a unique opportunity because of respect of property (no stake negation flags) to achieve what is impossible on the other chains. It's a matter of whether folks will understand that one can disagree with ideas and not need to become an enemy of the people who hold these ideas of contention. None of us are the ideas we embrace, and unless we would wield those ideas as a weapon against our neighbors then there is simply no need for battle on a personal level.

I'm glad to see the new wave coming, many in fact are from the circles I frequented at Steem and then Hive. In fact, the one who spurred this post was one I actually had logged in to Hive to try convincing to come here and stop fighting them over there. I hope as they settle in they will understand that while personal battles are part of the other chains they don't need to be here.

Haha yeah it is true you can see the spark spread through the mob here.

I think a good thing to remember is that all tools can be made into weapons but you have to see how they are being used before crying foul. A hammer can be innocent or deadly.

Thanks for living up to your name and creating this superb thought piece, I couldn't have vocalised it better myself, thank you so much!

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I couldn't think of a better way of letting you know that I've decided upon my new persona. What I find surprising upon my "return" is that I think I agree with everything you've said (although I have no interest in taking sides in whatever argument's triggered this debate to reappear). I've even said some of what you've written privately.

I know I had that conversation with my son when he turned 18 and knew everything much better than his father. His vast knowledge and the preferences they evoked made it clear my house wasn't a suitable place for his genius to reside within.

I hope that his genius found a new home and that it visits you regularly 🙂


I need to read all of the comments another day. It takes a long time to read your posts and it appears that my time has run out ⌛

Welcome back. I had to go look at your profile to know who was returning.

What I find surprising upon my "return" is that I think I agree with everything you've said

I'm not surprised myself. I imagine despite some of the areas we part ways, there is probably a good deal of areas where we will see things similar. I've found that to often be the case even with folks (usually far left) if the right common areas to begin dialogue take place. I believe often the area that trips up agreements are on the extreme fringes of ideas, and if we can venture into the vast areas not on those fringes more people actually agree than is apparent.

Welcome back. I wondered what had become of you.

I hope that his genius found a new home and that it visits you regularly

Sadly not. If anything he has become more stubborn in his views and has little patience for one who is often as ignorant as myself as he is prone to telling me before he lets me go in exasperation. An example of this most recently was maybe a month or so ago (I just moved) we were talking and I mentioned I couldn't work in the field I just left because here they demand one have the Covid injection. He is very pro injection, and despite knowing my stance on it he took my discussing my hardships as an opportunity to lecture me on how this was another good reason to get the injection.

After some harsh words where I was reiterating points I hold (including I've had Covid twice and will stick with my natural immunity to mitigate what twice now has not been life threatening) he grew so angry with me and my views that he hung up on me and we haven't spoken since.

This issue between us (one of many) began over two years ago regarding the injections, before they were even available. I wrote about it here if you ever get bored and need something to read.

https://hive.blog/blog/@practicalthought/when-neighbors-and-family-demand-a-not-so-civil-war

I show that primarily to demonstrate this has been an issue we've known for some time to be divisive between us, and I found his desire to make my hardship a battleground over it to be distasteful.

Welcome back :)

It's good to be back 🙂 I thought that I'd take some time away because I didn't like the way I was spending my time here. I didn't feel that I was being myself and with my profile on Steemit being what it is, I didn't feel that I could be myself whilst using the same username. I always felt that I was betraying my friends on Steemit by "working" here as well. In my "time off", I've been able to form a clear idea in my mind for how I can benefit both platforms by doing different things. I'm quite excited at some of the ideas I have, especially for Blurt.

I'm sorry to hear that things aren't great with your son. It's an all too familiar tale where people try to force their beliefs upon others, perhaps not realising that neither person is listening to the other. The vax / anti-vax divide is unnecessary - I'm on the vax side of the fence and have no intention of forcing my beliefs on the anti-vaxxers - in the same way that I wouldn't welcome anybody trying to convince me otherwise. Some topics simply shouldn't be discussed with family - I had a disagreement with my brother about a month ago regarding what I perceive to be immoral and dishonest "tax evasion" by key government figures. Because legally, they had done nothing wrong and my brother's job is to help people "avoid" tax (i.e. pay as little tax as possible), he took the other side of the argument. I got massively pissed off (as did he) and it's now clear to me it's a "no-go" zone. Whether he realises it's a no-go zone or not is irrelevant, I won't allow it to come up in conversation again.

I'd love to advise you to call your son, agree never to discuss the topic again and accept that it's a topic that you'll disagree upon for eternity and living in silence won't change that. At heart, you both know that the other's best interest is a priority, in the case of vaccinations, you disagree as to what this means.

My best friend is anti-vax at a time when he and his girlfriend could both lose their jobs and subsequently their home because of their views, all I could say was "you know the consequences of your choices" in the same way that I know having a vaccination that many believe wasn't thoroughly tested could also have consequences. But I don't want to turn this into a vax vs. anti-vax debate. I guess it's about going into decisions with your eyes open. You know where you stand on the topic and you know where your son stands - this doesn't mean that you can't have a strong relationship once one of you makes the first move 🙂

You know where you stand on the topic and you know where your son stands - this doesn't mean that you can't have a strong relationship once one of you makes the first move 🙂

The crux of the matter in the dynamics between my son and myself is it takes two in order for it to work. I had a similar dynamic with my dad for years. He couldn't accept many of my decisions (I tend to exacerbate many with my ways lol). I tried reasoning with him that my decisions were none of his business as I wasn't asking him to shoulder any negative repercussions that could arise from my decisions.

Yet he wouldn't stop with his cutting remarks, which grew more cutting with time as he grew to seeming despair he could not live my life for me. I finally cut him off to the dismay of some of the family. We went ten years without speaking. My stance was it was easier to love him from a distance.

He finally came to understand his relationship with me was more important than trying to be my dictator and he made an effort to reach out and apologize. The last few years of his life we got along swimmingly for which I was glad. However, I was prepared to never speak to him again as I deserved better than his abuse. That dynamic would insist I have no free will and am little more than an extension of his will and intent.

I've reached that place with my son now. He was the one that disengaged because once again I wouldn't roll over and acquiesce to his desires and insulting manipulations to achieve such. In my eyes the burden now rests with him if he is willing to hold a relationship of mutual respect between us. The burden on him now to reach out if he desires such. I won't waste my time in such and am willing to love him from a distance as I did with my dad and go the rest of my little time left without speaking again. A relationship with him is not worth abuse and being a second class individual, which is what he would and has been demanding. It can only work if we both see one another, not only my seeing him.

In the case of the Covid injections, I understand the views are opposite, and as such I never bring up my concerns regarding them with him since that initial disagreement years ago. The only reason it was brought up in this case was my despair over my financial situation (still not having a job and bills rolling in) which he initiated in asking me how my move was going. It all could have been so much smoother if he could have respected my position and just said something along the lines of, "I'm sorry your having such a hard go of it. I'm sure given how focused you can be something will break in your favor soon." Anything but a lecture, lol. Especially if he wasn't prepared for my rebuttal as he is smart enough to know would be coming.

Well... having known you for all of about 2 dozen messages, even I'd be wise enough to know not to lecture you 🤣

If it hadn't been 2 years, I'd suggest phoning him, telling things are so bad that you need to come and live with him... see what he says. Maybe wait until next April 1st...

As sad as the story sounds to me, it sounds like you're entirely at peace with the situation which is good - we can only hope that your son is too and as you both grow older, the history with your dad repeats itself with your son.

"I'm sorry your having such a hard go of it. I'm sure given how focused you can be something will break in your favor soon."

I'm sure that this is true - you're a resourceful man so it's only a matter of time. Once Blurt hits $1, you'll be laughing.

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One thing I find ironic about these calls to impose upon others private property is how often those pushing for this intrusion also are among the first to demand free speech and free markets and decentralization. The contradictions are quite glaring really.

exactly

we need to get a blurt front-end started that is 100% decentralized (using internet-computer-protocol)

https://currency.com/what-is-internet-computer-your-ultimate-guide


Posted from https://blurtlatam.com

“ we need to get a blurt front-end started that is 100% decentralized (using internet-computer-protocol)“

I couldn’t agree more! I feel 💯 same

I read through the link. It didn't answer the question I've held for some time.

How does one access the internet bypassing the companies such as Cox, Comcast, AT&T etc? They are the areas where the failure points will occur if and when they decide to cut us off.

VPN can mask your internet traffic from your local ISP


Posted from https://blurtlatam.com

I question how valid that is. I've seen it said a lot.

When I was self publishing, it is quite common for one to run afoul of Amazon KDP guidelines and get their publishing account banned. I've both read of and known authors from groups I belonged to who would try to get around the ban using VPV and incorporation to mask their identity. Every single time Amazon would know who they were and ban the account and keep any money they might have made from sales in that short time.

Upon further investigation I was able to discover that the programs on our computers are leaking data that identifies us. I'm unfortunately not tech savvy enough to understand what information (other than maybe a unique identifier for each that marks the ID of the version) is being leaked, nor how one would mask it.

The skeptic in me also questions how those who own the bridge would ever be powerless in knowing the traffic that travels across their bridges.

But as I said, my ignorance coupled with the little I've seen has made me come to the conclusion that in my case it's best just to proceed under the assumption there is no privacy to be had using the tools of those one would have privacy from.

you are well informed

the VPN masks your internet traffic (not your identity) very specifically from your ISP (and not from any specific destination you choose to visit, like amazon)


Posted from https://blurtlatam.com


JoDo 🤬🥓 Duty

built on internet computer


Posted from https://blurtlatam.com

the primary vectors for censorship are the web hosts (like AWS)

there is also a "chilling-effect" with the looming threat of "legal action" against either the web host or the "site owner" (but if the host is actually a decentralized blockchain [ICP], there is no "owner")

the ISPs are subject to "net-neutrality"

they have tried to stop things like "bit-torrent" but have been largely unsuccessful (up to this point)

mobile service providers may have more leverage over what sites are "allowed" and which are not


Posted from https://blurtlatam.com

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No, it could not be construed as bullying.
Not even sure why that would matter.
I did not follow your thinking on this post at all.

No, it could not be construed as bullying.

Not even sure why that would matter.

Eye of the beholder apparently as there are others at Blurt who did find it questionable to outright harassing obviously. Which when broadened out to the public at large who might likely hold less respect for free speech could skew the way it is perceived dramatically in favor of it being bullying. Which could in turn place the OWNER of the front end (their property) in jeopardy.

Given your tendencies to exhibit an emotional outburst (low self control) that I previously blogged about last year it is no surprise to me you were unable to follow along with my points. In (what I found to be) your shocking comment that was the thrust of a post I made, you exhibited jealousy, pettiness and attacking all of a group who shared a common physical characteristic due to your anger at one person who held those characteristics (we call that racism).

Here was your comment

https://hive.blog/hive-148441/@drutter/qoh13s

It's such a good thing you are able to make $30 for snapshots of yourself buying huge piles of animal flesh in styrofoam containers. You are living a life of consumerism and waste, decimating the Venezuelan ocean of life, and begging the world to pay the bill. You and your "I can't get the basic basket" nonsense, year after year. Shame on you and your family members, each with multiple accounts here, sucking the reward pool for every drop of money you can, the same crappy photos and nonsensical 3 or 4 sentences. That's the life, taking a picture on your smart phone every day, and being paid $5 to $40 for a few minutes of "work", complaining your country is the worst off in the world, then heading to the supermarket to spend your riches. Gross, dude. You have become a disgusting shell of the person you once were. I miss the man I met, growing fruit to save his family's life. Now a shameful fat government-obeying drone who uses a formula of ebegging to rape the blockchain for personal reward. I am sad I believed in you and bought your family a water pump - which you just pocketed the money for! I worked for 2 years on this blockchain to earn you that money, and you just laughed and spent it on junk food. Now you're pretending you've got it worse off than anyone else in the world? You Venezuelans are living it up and wouldn't last a day in Canada without your south-American privilege.

Here was my post on it.

https://blurt.blog/blurt/@practicalthought/when-assholes-insist-we-can-t-have-nice-things

Despite knowing these traits of yours that I find to be repugnant, I am an advocate for free speech and would not deny you your place here at Blurt. I've even welcomed you and in some small ways when our thoughts are aligned support you despite these other aspects of yourself I dislike very much.

I also advocate for property rights, and would fully support any front end that would choose to block you from THEIR FRONT END if you begin spewing crap like that insulting whole groups of people. Especially my good friend @freakeao who owns one of the front ends blurtlatam.com, given he is one of those, according to you, that is living it up on his south-American privilege.

The blockchain cares not if one is an angry jealous racist and yourself or any others could always, as I point out in my post, feel free to start your own front end that would allow those of like mind to talk about such things to your hearts content. Upvote such as well all you like, and shoulder any legal repercussions that may result from your exercise of free speech and property rights. And all other front ends would be within their rights to decide they have no desire to shoulder any of that liability (or allow so many of our valued community members here to be insulted in such ways) and block what is posted on your front ends from their own.

That is a respect for property ownership and free speech. One can't ask for better than that.

When I clicked your Hive link, I realized why I don't recognize your name, but everybody else seems to - I've had you muted, probably for years. Just going by your comment here, it was likely because I identified you as an illogical pseudo-intellectual. Practicality is one thing, but yours lack what gives thoughts meaning - logic. You see what you want to see.
I recommend you put me and any other people you consider assholes, racists, hypocrites, etc on "mute". Really improves one's blockchain experience, trust me. I have yet to copy over my Hive mute list to Blurt but will get right on that.

I feel honored to be on a list that also contains dwinblood and urasoul. Thank you.

I was never one much for the mute button myself, other than a few who spam comment sections with nonsense. But it's admirable that those who do need one use them. Clint Eastwood summed it up best I think.

No need to worry, matey - there will not be any more posts from me on such issues.
(one last one - posting later today on @ lucyreloaded - I'm done.)

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Re🤬eD

Love your take on things Bruv 👍
Yer a master 🤌

(Just read the title 😶 I don't expect you to actually watch the whole thing 🥓)

Thank you for your kind assessment of me.

Thank you. :)

As usual, can't ague against such practical thought. I do believe much of us everyday bloggers forget to realize that the front ends are private property. I'll admit to overlooking that entirely, until you mentioned it here. Since I believe said penguin should not be on such a list. I'm perfectly ok with it, as long as they all don't put him on the list, that would be a bummer.

So my solution to this issue I can take into my own hands which is great. If blurt.blog my go to front end puts him on the list, I'll just use blurt.latam or blurt.live or the new blurt front end that does not put him on the list.

Problem solved. Thank you for the practical thoughts. You are an asset here, big time, but you already knew that ;)

I think whenever there's drama, we go straight to @practicalthought for the end all say 💚🤪😘

I would say thanks god that's solved. As you see we always have a wave of dramas and then problems always solved in blurt. Isn't that awesome ? Peace and prosperity. ☺

Thanks for the kind thoughts. I found this to be a unique situation for myself, as I go back a long way with the penguin. I've spoken to him a few times on letting something go, to which I usually meet my match in wordage on why that's not a bad idea, except for these reasons, lol.

Despite the times that has happened I have always gotten along swimmingly with him and appreciate his sharp wit and humor. I already told him that if he were to meet the COAL fate I will read him if possible without joining another site wherever he would choose to go. I don't think given the time that has elapsed coupled with megadrive mentioning another route forward he will be getting COALED, but I see this as yet another instance of folks demanding rights on anothers property so felt compelled to speak on it. Seems to me that so many of these issues could go away if we would just stop making demands on others property.

I'll be curious to see if anyone who runs a front end and doesn't use the COAL list will chime in here, or if this post might serve as an impetus for one being created.

Thanks again for the kind thoughts.

Nice post! I enjoy to read your posts.


Posted from https://blurtlatam.com

I also believe that there are more important rights than the right of freedom of speech. Right of living, right of moving, right of doing what we want and many many others. As well, very nice mentioned about the platform or frontend. The owner of the frontend also has the right to do what ever he wants with it. It's impossible I guess to delete, edit, or hide on the top of the blockchain. Recently I was thinking what is a front end will be create where we don't see the rewards. People also will say that they have the right to see them ? While it's all on the top of the blockchain. Maybe this what confuse people. In the future many many applications can be created, and it's up to the owner to accept things there or refuse them. Let's say someone decided to create an application where only videos will be seen, without descriptions. Or only certain types of videos, let's say about gardening only, so if someone will come with a video dancing, and will not be accepted also will say that's his freedom of speech is hurt ?

Anyway, I personally think that freedom of speech has limits. Especially in an international community. It's not accepted for me for example when someone makes fun of accents, or insult people. I wouldn't create such a platform where that will be accepted. I understand now why @ctime gave that solution..

Maybe we need to place there some educational videos about the difference between the blockchain and frontends. For example in the main welcoming page when people join.

Recently I was thinking what is a front end will be create where we don't see the rewards.

great idea


Posted from https://blurtlatam.com

I also believe that there are more important rights than the right of freedom of speech.

I'm an advocate for free speech, yet at times such as this when it collides with property rights it will lose. None of us have the right to be a guest in the area of anothers property and speak indefinitely however we wish when the owner doesn't want that speech. Made even more obvious in my opinion when the owner can themselves be held legally liable if it is speech that can get the owner penalized once there has been a complaint made by a person the speech has been used against.

I have seen many times now in my time here megadrive take heat that was undeserved in my opinion, and every time he has sought some kind of middle ground that has often gotten him more heat.

I appreciate very much when you say

Let's say someone decided to create an application where only videos will be seen, without descriptions. Or only certain types of videos, let's say about gardening only

I mentioned in a recent post I did on potential uses for Blurt for companies to use it for in house rewards systems, or employee bonuses or for tracking training module completion, etc. There are many uses that could be business or interest focused that could see very limited front ends created for those uses. None of us would have the right to log onto those sites if we weren't the target audience, nor spam their sites with muh freedom of speech. They would be perfectly within their rights to create a different log in system that only those targeted for the use could use, to further limit the posts and comments etc to those made within their specific front end.

On the topic of free speech, on a personal level can understand why after a point one is beating a dead horse. After an initial disagreement, if one side continues to pursue the other side who chose to disengage it would seem likely to me that to the average onlooker this could be viewed as harassment and bullying. I have full empathy for any front end owner who doesn't desire facing any legal repercussions for this, and being a free speech chain those who desire a more confrontational approach that could be viewed by others as such can feel free to create their own free for all website that has no limitations and accept that burden completely on their shoulders. The chain allows all of this, just a matter if others are willing to shoulder that risk they would demand another to take upon theirs.

Thanks for leaving such a thoughtful comment.

I'm an advocate for free speech, yet at times such as this when it collides with property rights it will lose.

I believe this was pretty much the first debate we ever had 🙂


Bullying is an interesting (for lack of a better word) subject. When somebody perceives themselves to be being bullied, who are we to tell them that they're not? When that person says "I feel that you're bullying me, please stop it" and the other person chooses to continue, then the bullying becomes clearer to all onlookers.

When that person says "I feel that you're bullying me, please stop it" and the other person chooses to continue, then the bullying becomes clearer to all onlookers.

Exactly. Many don't understand that quite often when one is attacking another that it reflects as much, and often more on the one attacking that the one being attacked. Quickly creating questions such as why the compulsion to go scorched earth and in this way as to involve spectators. The link I shared mentioned that aspect of it, the use of the public square being used to recruit others to the cause of belittlement against the target.

Quickly creating questions such as why the compulsion to go scorched earth and in this way as to involve spectators. The link I shared mentioned that aspect of it, the use of the public square being used to recruit others to the cause of belittlement against the target.

It's a (I can't think of the appropriate word) confidence building mechanism - if they rally the troops to support them, then it increases the feeling of "being right". It helps to remove the doubt that they're behaving inappropriately and could perhaps even be considered "mob mentality". Which as I type this, it sounds very much like what a group of bullies would do at school - egging each other on to go one step further.

Interestingly enough

it sounds very much like what a group of bullies would do at school - egging each other on to go one step further.

The video and link I shared primarily discusses the cyber bullying in terms of kids. Most of the research I did before writing this seems aimed at kids.

One of the common areas as well addresses one of the root dis-eases that comes from this as

rally the troops to support them

Which in essence magnifies the stress of the one being targeted. I saw that happening in this situation as well although being many involved are from my circles I wonder at the level of awareness on the full implications. I believe I mentioned in one of my comments to another on this that the dynamics of Hive (and Steem before that) was one that was conducive to conflict and the mindset has been ingrained in many without their understanding it is a mindset that one can let go of.

Blurt has a structure unique in the potential for respect with the absence of the flag and stake negation. That so often came with mobs of bullies who rallied to curry favor with those in power using those flags.

In this current case the one targeted did initiate the confrontational dialogue, to which I did initially respond although in a way that was designed to allow her a respect while warning she was setting herself up to be a target. To which she in turn informed me my views weren't welcome so I gave her the last word. I didn't need the last word. All the words were already said and at that point it would be just bickering to be bickering.

I've said often that when one is debating an idea, if it turns to personal attack that then becomes relentless, that most times it grows to be a reflection and cause for examination of the one wielding the attacking words and no longer the target of such words. Questions arising to motivations and desired results.

I say this as someone who at times has been a broken record on my defense of property rights and speech. And my motivations have been because I see that bad thoughts (as well as good thoughts) are indeed communicable and if they are mired in dis-ease it can quickly spread as it is adopted by more folks who are spreading it to others.

I do believe if we can reach a point where one respects others property and personhood that it opens a door to being able to disagree with ideas yet not denigrate the one holding the ideas in contention.

Thanks so much for adding your thoughts to this conversation.

The video and link I shared primarily discusses the cyber bullying in terms of kids. Most of the research I did before writing this seems aimed at kids.

Ah yes, of course it was. There's an assumption that once we become adults, we grow out of that kind of behaviour but there's certainly something about being online (not just on Hive) that makes the inner child appear.

I suppose in situations like this, people don't have time to stop and think. They read something, assume it's confrontational and start / continue a fight that isn't necessarily there. In time, they'll do this to so many people and wonder why they're alone. Not knowing the background (and not being particularly interested in finding it out).

I don't know... a large portion of society has stopped listening to what's being said and instead hears what they want to hear. The conversation that was never had from words that were never said from a world view that isn't shared. I've always had an amusing thought that my gran's generation never said what they thought - my mum's generation complained in private - my generation complains politely - the next generation complains loudly and aggressively about everything.

Off I go on my little tangent...

Thanks so much for adding your thoughts to this conversation.

You're always welcome 🙂

even facebook and discord and patreon and youtube have options to create "invite only" spaces where the creator of the space has the option to kick people out.

the "freedom-of-speech" exists with the equal ability to create YOUR OWN PRIVATE SPACE

when you speak PUBLICLY you will be subject to PUBLIC RIDICULE

blurt needs this

hive should have implemented this


Posted from https://blurtlatam.com

So much this.